Universal Access To All Knowledge
Home Donate | Store | Blog | FAQ | Jobs | Volunteer Positions | Contact | Bios | Forums | Projects | Terms, Privacy, & Copyright
Search: Advanced Search
Anonymous User (login or join us)
Upload

Reply to this post | Go Back
View Post [edit]

Poster: ringolevio Date: Oct 6, 2011 6:55pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Did Dropping Acid Make Steve Jobs More Creative?

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/2011/10/steve_jobs_implied_that_taking_lsd_made_him_more_creative_does_t.html


“Apple founder and tech visionary Steve Jobs died on Wednesday. Jobs was heavily influenced by 1960s counterculture, and once told a reporter that taking LSD was “one of the two or three most important things” he did in his life. Can LSD really make you more creative?
Possibly. Psychology researchers conducted a lot of studies in the 1950s and ‘60s on the relationship between psychedelic drugs and creativity. Their methodology was inconsistent, though, and the results were somewhat scattered. Taken as a whole, the studies suggested that people who are creative to begin with may experience a slight increase in inspiration or insight during and after an acid trip ...

... It’s difficult to draw any firm conclusions from the LSD and creativity research. The dosages varied between studies, and the setting of the trip seemed to affect the outcome. (Many reports went into some detail on the surroundings: “The drug sessions were held in a large, tastefully decorated room specially designed to enhance the drug experience. It contained couches, rugs, flowers, pictures, books, an aquarium, and art objects. Music was played during most of the session.”)

WHAT MUSIC??!


Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: bluedevil Date: Oct 6, 2011 8:03pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Did Dropping Acid Make Steve Jobs More Creative?

Re creative? Definitely

http://www.hallucinogens.com/lsd/francis-crick.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KG2SPjcKM4M

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: reviewr Date: Oct 7, 2011 9:09pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Did Dropping Acid Make Steve Jobs More Creative?

I can't name the source, so it may not be true. But, I heard/read somewhere that Walt Disney dropped acid at least once.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: rdenirojb87 Date: Oct 7, 2011 9:23pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Did Dropping Acid Make Steve Jobs More Creative?

interesting stuff:
http://www.alternativereel.com/includes/top-ten/display_review.php?id=00064

check out #1. mary poppins inspired by acid? i can see that.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: patkelleyPA Date: Oct 6, 2011 8:23pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Did Dropping Acid Make Steve Jobs More Creative?

creative perhaps, but certainly not generous. he was one of the wealthiest people ever to walk the earth, but has no record of philanthropy. disgraceful.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: DeadRed1971 Date: Oct 6, 2011 8:51pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Did Dropping Acid Make Steve Jobs More Creative?

Apple is the biggest contributor to Bono's Product Red, fighting AIDS, tuberculosis, and malaria. Jobs gave tens of millions of dollars to this and other causes.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Oct 6, 2011 9:13pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Did Dropping Acid Make Steve Jobs More Creative?

http://tinyurl.com/4frvbny

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: patkelleyPA Date: Oct 7, 2011 6:50am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Did Dropping Acid Make Steve Jobs More Creative?

Yes, Apple is. They're a separate company with their own management and their own board of directors. Completely distinct from Jobs, who gave away like $1000 of his own money total ever.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Oct 7, 2011 7:55am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Did Dropping Acid Make Steve Jobs More Creative?

You have absolutely no idea how much money Steve Jobs donated to charity and neither do I because he chose to keep that activity private. It may have been pennies and it may have been an amount that would make your eyes water. You can pointlessly speculate wherever your prejudices lead you along that spectrum - but unless someone opens the accounts pointless speculation is all it is.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: unclejohn52 Date: Oct 7, 2011 8:52am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Did Dropping Acid Make Steve Jobs More Creative?

Agreed. Related news article: http://abcnews.go.com/Business/steve-jobs-death-billions-remain-private-topic/story?id=14682218

65% of his wealth comes from Pixar investments, not Apple - putting his money where his energy and beliefs were. I like this quote from the end of the article:

In 1993, Jobs told the Wall Street Journal: "Being the richest man in the cemetery doesn't matter to me…Going to bed at night saying we've done something wonderful…that's what matters to me."

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Oct 7, 2011 9:04am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Did Dropping Acid Make Steve Jobs More Creative?

If achieving wonders rather than acquiring wealth was our primary motivation how much more pleasant the world might be - but how satisfying to be able to do both.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: patkelleyPA Date: Oct 7, 2011 10:28am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Did Dropping Acid Make Steve Jobs More Creative?

I, in fact, do happen to know this. So I'm not speculating at all. And I can assure you that his charitable activities were pathetic. He was actually always famous for his miserliness and bad attitude. All he wanted to do was make his companies big and successful. That's cool, but I am a firm believer that the ultra-wealthy have a duty to give their money away.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Oct 7, 2011 10:34am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Did Dropping Acid Make Steve Jobs More Creative?

Oh yes? And how do you, an anonymous poster from some dark corner of the Internet, know this when the major news organizations do not? You surely don't expect us hardboiled old cynics to simply take your word for it, now do you?

Where's the fucking money, Lebowski?

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: patkelleyPA Date: Oct 7, 2011 6:51am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Did Dropping Acid Make Steve Jobs More Creative?

And why don't you tell me about all these "other causes?" I'd be very interested if you could find even one.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: RBNW....new and improved! Date: Oct 7, 2011 8:35am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Did Dropping Acid Make Steve Jobs More Creative?

Should you really be making these accusations....he died!

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: patkelleyPA Date: Oct 7, 2011 10:32am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Did Dropping Acid Make Steve Jobs More Creative?

I get your point. But I'm talking facts here, and you were just talking shit.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: hazelspapa Date: Oct 7, 2011 6:58pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Did Dropping Acid Make Steve Jobs More Creative?

Mr. Kelley, I'll simply refer everyone back to your own words regarding how one should speak of the dead. "Lobbying (sic) gratuitous shots at dead people that never did any harm to anyone is just plain trashy." I couldn't agree more.

Here's the original post - http://www.archive.org/iathreads/post-view.php?id=395430

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: patkelleyPA Date: Oct 8, 2011 4:47am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Did Dropping Acid Make Steve Jobs More Creative?

Once again, I am speaking of facts, not just gratuitous shit-talking. But nice try at being clever.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: SpacedAgain Date: Oct 8, 2011 5:42pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Did Dropping Acid Make Steve Jobs More Creative?

There's some evidence that it's true, and John Markoff's book finally leverage what I had heard years before. I heard that Jobs required his engineers to pass an acid test of some sort.

There were studies done through the short-lived Institute for Psychedelic Research at San Francisco State College, led by Willis Harman (Stanford engineering prof), later to become president of the Institute of Noetic Sciences.
http://www.hofmann.org/papers/creative/psychreports.html

Also part of the pilot study was James Fadiman, co-author of Essential Sufism with Robert Frager, and Robert McKim, who was influential among interface designers:
http://www.amazon.com/Experiences-Visual-Thinking-Robert-McKim/dp/0818504110

There was also a little book on the subject, LSD — The Problem-Solving Psychedelic, by P.G. Stafford and B.H. Golightly.
http://www.psychedelic-library.org/staf3.htm

While LSD is not physically addictive (it doesn't work after 3 days), the danger is that some may associate the vehicle with the goal and certain states as the ultimate. The issue of psychoactive drugs is fascinating AND problematic. For many it just may open doors that they are not prepared to deal with, and makes me think of Charles Upton's writing on "fissures in the great wall".

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: hazelspapa Date: Oct 8, 2011 7:03pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Non-dead - What's more "disgraceful"

I should know better.

This post was modified by hazelspapa on 2011-10-09 01:34:45

This post was modified by hazelspapa on 2011-10-09 02:03:45

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: patkelleyPA Date: Oct 8, 2011 4:08pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Non-dead - What's more 'disgraceful'

I actually do have personal knowledge about it, and it's common knowledge. Really rich people should give their money away. Don;t be such a Republican!

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: hazelspapa Date: Oct 8, 2011 7:15pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Non-dead - What's more 'disgraceful'

Know I said you could have the last word, but couldn't imagine that word would be "Republican!" Ouch!
Soooo...never said the rich shouldn't give their money away. Actually, I don't even think people should be allowed to keep enough money to be considered rich (that makes me a proud Socialist). I just don't think the time to disparage someone is during the time immediately following their death. You obviously don't agree. Fine. It's your opinion, your words, your rights, and your karma, so have at it.

Out of curiousity, your gut led you to believe (inaccurately) that I am a Republican. My gut tells me you're a lawyer, probably from up North. Got into the Dead in the late 80's or 90's. Am I right? Not trying to be funny; I'm really curious. Okay, maybe a little funny, but mostly curious. Besides, if I'm right, I'm guessing you don't get the joke.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Arbuthnot Date: Oct 9, 2011 8:08am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Non-dead - What's more 'disgraceful'

he didn't say you were a 'republican', he said 'don't be such a republican', as in don't be such an idiot, or don't be such an irritating moralizer ... do you get it now? further, no one believes you're just 'curious', why the fuck would you be about someone you don't even know, and who you had just disparaged? but of course all this forum stuff is just a waste of time to you, which it would be for someone of your vast intellectual caliber, so sayonara hazelboy

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: hazelspapa Date: Oct 9, 2011 8:52am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Non-dead - What's more 'disgraceful'

"irritating moralizer"? You're criticizing me because my first post isn't up to your standards. Maybe I should have speculated on what Jerry thought of Vince? And what I did was point out patkelleyPA's own words to him.
As far as being curious, I'm not curious about him, I'm curious if I'm right and if the current scene is the same one I abandoned in '85 (frankly, due to the kinds of attitude I'm running into here). Also, if I'm being honest, it is a poke at Mr. Kelley. Sorry, I'm not nearly as good as I aspire to be.
But, back to the original point. I simply felt a need to point out the hypocrisy of the post, in light of previous statements. My mistake was thinking 1) that he would be receptive to that and 2) not letting my initial post stand on it's own. I let his reply get to me.
I also think if you're going to criticize someone, you should know what your talking about, especially people that can't defend themselves. He does not have personal knowledge of Steve Jobs' charitible activity and it isn't common knowledge. Luarene Jobs serves on the board of many charitable organizations and is very active in several other organizations, such as Achieva, Global Fund for Women, Emerson Collective, KQED (PBS), EdVoice, PARSA and the New America Foundation. She is president and founder of the Board of College Track, and the co-founder of Terranova. One doesn't get on the board of directors for organizations like this without making substantial contributions, and Steve was the main source of income in that household. Bono has also come out to defend Steve's record since his death pointing out that his contributions have "literally transformed the lives of two million people in Africa". That's ample evidence.
Does all this make it okay for me to attack Mr. Kelley? No. I don't believe I did in my first post, so I stand by that. My 2nd post doesn't meet that standard, so I have edited it to try to recitify my mistake. Sorry, that's the best I can do. How about you?

To all forum users - The waste of time comment wasn't meant to insult anyone and it was bad judgement to include it. How you choose to spend your time is up to you, and if networking with people here is fulfilling, then great; I'm happy for you. It just isn't the kind of thing that is fulfilling to me. I don't care how others spend their time, as long as it isn't doing harm to others.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Arbuthnot Date: Oct 9, 2011 10:02am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Non-dead - What's more 'disgraceful'

i'm surprised that you, a self-described 'proud Socialist', would even care to defend Steve Jobs, whose wealth and influence stands out against every tenet of Socialism; odd that you defend SJ so staunchly, as though you and he were lunch buddies, which your posting would then make sense if you had been

as for my criticism of your initial posting, when you come on here with a first post and attack someone you don't even know, in the manner you did, on a forum largely devoted to topics related to the GD, which you wouldn't even be reading unless you were a fan of the music, or just plain bored silly at home or the office and looking for something out of left field to waste your time by reading, well, let's just say it all comes across as a little bizarre like trolling

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: hazelspapa Date: Oct 9, 2011 11:36am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Non-dead - What's more 'disgraceful'

I'm not defending Steve Jobs. I'm actually not a fan. I'm saying I don't think it's okay to trash talk anyone who has just died, whoever they are. At least wait until the body is cold. I'm also defending the notion that you should know what the hell you're talking about before you make blanket statements about someone, again, whoever they may be. If you actually read what I'm saying you can see that. I am simply giving my opinion (like everyone else here) and pointing out some falsehoods, which I fail to understand how that is a bad thing (other than when I momentarily lapsed into a disrespectful tone in the 2nd post).

As far as the topic, I didn't start the thread, I simply responded, just as you are.

I don't feel the initial post was an attack, it was simply pointing out his own words on the subject. If that was construed as an attack, sorry, it wasn't meant that way. Personally, I want to be called out when I'm being a hypocrite. I probably crossed the line with the 2nd post, but I fixed that to the best of my ability. I'm not the one implying mental illness, calling people cowards, idiots, & trolls, or otherwise making this personal.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Arbuthnot Date: Oct 9, 2011 6:46pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Non-dead - What's more 'disgraceful'

well enough, no worries

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Arbuthnot Date: Oct 8, 2011 2:54pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Non-dead - What's more 'disgraceful'

and you went and created a user account because you were just burning with an insane desire to say what you had to say? so this would be your intro or first time post on the forum then? disgraceful. or are you a regular here who created this 'fake' account to therefore cowardly speak out? fucking disgraceful

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: hazelspapa Date: Oct 8, 2011 7:08pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Non-dead - What's more 'disgraceful'

Longtime archive user, first time post. Generally seems like a waste of time. Just thought the comments were inappropriate at this time and felt compelled to say so. Momentary lapse of reason.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Arbuthnot Date: Oct 9, 2011 7:29am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Non-dead - What's more 'disgraceful'

whatever you say Koch, go take your meds...

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: hazelspapa Date: Oct 9, 2011 8:40am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Non-dead - What's more 'disgraceful'

So, all you've got is name calling and innuendo?
The momentary lapse of reason is referring to thinking that you all would have an open mind and actually think about what someone has written. As I said, I should know better.
BTW, I edited the previous post because that is the best I can do under the circumstances to right my wrongs (allowing myself to become hypocritical with my choice of words and tone).

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: bluedevil Date: Oct 6, 2011 8:45pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Did Dropping Acid Make Steve Jobs More Creative?

How do you know that he didn't give anonymously? By all accounts, he was incredibly protective of his private life - I don't recall ever seeing a picture of his wife or kids.

http://blogs.wsj.com/wealth/2011/10/06/steve-jobs-can-still-become-a-great-philanthropist/

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Arbuthnot Date: Oct 6, 2011 7:12pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Did Dropping Acid Make Steve Jobs More Creative?

i'll let the master answer your question

Loudon Wainwright III - The Acid Song

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: ringolevio Date: Oct 6, 2011 7:28pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Did Dropping Acid Make Steve Jobs More Creative?

LOL. It's not really my question, I just want to know what music they were playing during the drug/creativity studies!

"We went over to Mary's apartment to listen to the Grateful Dead ..."

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Arbuthnot Date: Oct 6, 2011 7:54pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Did Dropping Acid Make Steve Jobs More Creative?

well, it's a mid-'80s song, and i think he is referring to when he was 40 years old give or take, which would put it in the mid-'80s, so he may have been listening to, good lord, Brent era, however, he probably threw on LiveDead because i have come to believe he's a Pig-era kind of GD listener ... but i could be projecting...

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: AltheaRose Date: Oct 6, 2011 7:44pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Did Dropping Acid Make Steve Jobs More Creative?

>The drug sessions were held in a large, tastefully decorated room

And what was "tastefully decorated"? Given that this was the 50s/early 60s, I'm picturing Mad Men ...

I think I've read that music was classical. Hopefully not Perry Como.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Diamondhead Date: Oct 7, 2011 1:53pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Did Dropping Acid Make Steve Jobs More Creative?

I'm picturing Mad Men snap snap snapping their fingers to cool jazz and lounge music.

I wish I could talk in technicolor - a 50s housewife goes on a trip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDTsZn-eM5g

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: ringolevio Date: Oct 6, 2011 7:54pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Did Dropping Acid Make Steve Jobs More Creative?

I'm also not sure how "couches, rugs, flowers, books" etc. "enhance the drug experience." I mean it just sounds like an ordinary room ... well, an ordinary FURNISHED room but what other kind of room would one normally have a drug experience in.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: AltheaRose Date: Oct 6, 2011 8:13pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Did Dropping Acid Make Steve Jobs More Creative?

I guess they were pointing out that, even though it was a lab test, they weren't giving it to people in a bare white room.

I clicked on the report within that link -- the one with that quote (the link is "some detail") -- and it was published in 1967 but about a 1964 test, apparently at UCLA. I just skimmed it, but what struck me is that when they initially interviewed possible subjects -- grad students who responded to an ad to earn some money doing a lab test (no mention of the topic!) -- something like 34 out of 155 were disqualified because they already had experience with LSD or peyote. In 1964!!!

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Dhamma1 Date: Oct 7, 2011 4:48am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Did Dropping Acid Make Steve Jobs More Creative?

The early history of psychedelics is quite fascinating. Thousands of people took in before 1960, and the mainstream press openly debated whether it was a wonder drug that might benefit society. Timothy Leary, taking it for the first time in 1960 (I believe) actually was a late-comer. The most enjoyable overview of these early years is in Jay Stevens' book, Storming Heaven.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: bluedevil Date: Oct 7, 2011 2:08pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Did Dropping Acid Make Steve Jobs More Creative?

Yea, ask Cary Grant.
http://www.futurehi.net/archives/000693.html